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#2443 - 11/30/10 05:13 PM Should atvs be allowed on state game land.
Yamaha Rider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 91
Loc: U.S.
My next question is do you think hunters should be allow to use there atv on state game land for draging deer, bear and other large game.

All opinions welcome

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#2444 - 11/30/10 05:18 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Trail Ranger Offline
Chairman of The Board

Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1591
Loc: Cresson, PA
I would have to disagree with that...

You would have too many people that really dont give a crap and just out there riding around...

Would make the game lands a crazy place to be, probably cause way too many problems...

I do however think that all state game lands should be open to road and trail access for atv's in the off season...

Originally Posted By: Qmudder
My next question is do you think hunters should be allow to use there atv on state game land for draging deer, bear and other large game.

All opinions welcome

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#2446 - 11/30/10 05:23 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Yamaha Rider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 91
Loc: U.S.
I agree with you opinion trial ranger, some people would just take advantage of it and ruin it for everyone.

But the off season riding would be nice.

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#2448 - 11/30/10 05:52 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
magoo Offline
addict

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 400
Loc: Schellsburg , Pa
I agree with you also, However it would be nice if some of the game lands had more roads in them that you could drive your vehicle on to take your game out. The game land I hunt sometimes, is almost 4,000 acres I walk over an hour in and it su**s when you get something.And off season riding would be nice..


Edited by magooevans (11/30/10 05:53 PM)

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#2451 - 11/30/10 06:12 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Dogbyte Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/15/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Kennett Sqaure PA
I bet the hunters would like the open trails left by the atvers, as long as they are too beat up!
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#2452 - 11/30/10 06:24 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Yamaha Rider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 91
Loc: U.S.
Yeah magooevans that would be nice to have roads for vechiles.

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#2460 - 12/01/10 08:52 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
CycleGuru Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 107
Loc: cyber-space
Off season 100%
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#2463 - 12/01/10 01:53 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: CycleGuru]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
I'm with the CycleGuru on this. We paid the registration. A deer tag gives a hunter open range on some state owned property that is gated off the other part of the year. I would be willing to pay $100 a year to ride ALL STATE LAND if it was offered with NO COMPLAINTS. As far as hunters using ATV's, they've been given enough. Stop sniviling about how big the buck is that you chose to shoot, 5 miles in the bush, grab a horn and start dragging. I mean realy when did hunters start to become all women! LOL!!! I thought it was a manly sport. LOL!!!! Thats my 2 cents. LOL!!!!

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#2464 - 12/01/10 02:48 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Myleslong]
CycleGuru Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 107
Loc: cyber-space
Originally Posted By: chris
when did hunters start to become all women! LOL!!! I thought it was a manly sport.
Since the NFL began fining the players into obilvion. Contact Football will soon become FAG/Flag Football... lol and that is my two cents... lol!!


Edited by CycleGuru (12/01/10 02:49 PM)
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#2465 - 12/01/10 03:35 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Wildhorse800 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Between Bedford and Canada
Definitely off season riding. Just way too much land being held specifically for hunters only. We should all have equal time to enjoy the land as we see fit.

I haven't hunted for years, but when I did, I'd use the trails we rode on. Yes, we rode game land all the time when I was younger. It was nice to have open trails to get into the woods and to drag a deer out. Now the "paths" are all grown over and it's a pain in the arse to get back there.

Shouldn't we all get to use the land? It's our government...our tax dollars...not just hunters $$$ used for the PAGC. BS

Just to hard to get away with it nowadays. People moving too close, cell phones and now they will send helicopters out to huntyou down...seriously! facepalm


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#2467 - 12/01/10 04:44 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Myleslong]
Yamaha Rider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 91
Loc: U.S.
Thanks chris you have an interesting opinion

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#2469 - 12/01/10 06:51 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
rofl

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#2483 - 12/02/10 12:01 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Myleslong]
ghost_rider Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 49
SGL's are paid for by hunters dollars. I don't want to see atv's on sgls at all no matter the time of the year because their is no offseason. there is always something in that you can hunt. But I don't believe that they should allow bird watching tree huggers, dog walkers, bikers, horse riders, cross country skiers, or random people to use the gun ranges because they think it is state land. make em buy a 20.00 permit to use the land like I had to by buying a hunting license. Until these people pony up the $ they shouldn't be allowed to step foot on a SGL IMO. state forest land is different. it is paid for by tax payers dollars and honestly they ought to open the State forest roads to ATVrs in the winter months like they do the snow mobilers. no sense in not allowing it.

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#2486 - 12/02/10 03:42 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: ghost_rider]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
I have to agree with ghost_rider on this one . I'd enjoy riding on SGL , but it's hunters dollars that purchace and maintain them for wildlife and hunting , not ATVers.
One of our local riding areas was taken over by something called Game Cooperation grounds ??? The coal company still ownes the ground , but the Game Commission over sees it as a SGL . BIG fines if your caught riding there now . I believe it was a liability issue for the coal company .

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#2487 - 12/02/10 03:45 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
ghost_rider Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 49
big difference between a sgl and a game cooperator grounds. I would bet that the coal company didnt athorize you to ride your quads there. the PGC doesnt really over look the properties as much as they do the sgls though.

linky http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=620382&mode=2

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#2488 - 12/02/10 03:54 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: ghost_rider]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Thanks for the reply GR . What is the difference ? I honestly don't know . Only that they fine you as if it is SGLs .

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#2489 - 12/02/10 03:56 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: 4x4dad]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Ooops.... I see the link , thanks .

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#2490 - 12/02/10 04:04 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: 4x4dad]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Only difference I see is the ownership . PAGC still treats it like State Gamelands ? Big fines for ATVers . From what I read on the link , it was a liability issue .
And , no I don't believe anyone had proper permission to actually ride there 27 yrs ago . Everybody just rode there . What can I say ? I was young & dumb ? Now I'm just older....... doh

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#2498 - 12/03/10 12:48 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
do bicyclista and walkers pay for the "rails to trails" projects? no ATV registration did, but can you ride your quad on any of these converted rail beds? no. state game lands were not purchased solely from hunting licenses, you better believe our tax dollars were also wasted there. i've got a monetary stake in it, why not allow me to use it?
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#2499 - 12/03/10 01:04 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Hammer07 , Look up Pa. gamelands in Wikipedia . Pa. state gamelands are paid for by hunter license monies . Not tax dollars .
That is exactlly why it ticks me off that they are allowing gas drilling rigs on the gamelands . What does gas drilling have to do with wildlife management ? I guarentee you it will not lower hunter license fees .

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#2504 - 12/03/10 11:44 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
sorry, i just don't believe that.
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#2506 - 12/03/10 03:19 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Jim Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 903
Loc: armstrong co
Thats the way I always heard it to, licence money pays . They also lease alot of ground that they dont own, but it still has the same laws.
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#2507 - 12/03/10 04:55 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
This is the best time of year to ride quads and if HUNTERS shut me down from riding this time of year you can guarantee I won't agree with hunters riding, GOSH DARN IT!!!!!! State game lands or state land, you shoot it you drag it, on foot, on a wheelchair, with crutches, I don't care. Hunters are a bunch of whining mamby pampy flower pick'n sissies. LOL!!! Next we'll be discussing how hunters want to be Air Borne and dropped in from 800ft from a airplane. LOL!!! Come on. I thought this was about a reconnection to nature and being a MAN!!! Whats wrong with walking in the woods? I fish, why can't I ride my quad to my favorite fish spot or better yet why can't I fish from my quad in the creek? God knows I don't want to get my feetsies wet! LOL!!! Screw a boat I got alot of money invested in this DARN QUAD!!!! LOL!!!


Edited by chris (12/03/10 05:14 PM)

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#2508 - 12/03/10 06:02 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
magoo Offline
addict

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 400
Loc: Schellsburg , Pa
Originally Posted By: Hammer07
sorry, i just don't believe that.


Hammer07, I didn't believe that ether, But I found this so check it out if you want.

http://explorepahistory.com/hmarker.php?markerId=517

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#2509 - 12/03/10 06:21 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Jim Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 903
Loc: armstrong co
I have saw that sign before, its in the area north of st marys
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#2512 - 12/04/10 12:48 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Myleslong]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Originally Posted By: chris
This is the best time of year to ride quads and if HUNTERS shut me down from riding this time of year you can guarantee I won't agree with hunters riding, GOSH DARN IT!!!!!! State game lands or state land, you shoot it you drag it, on foot, on a wheelchair, with crutches, I don't care. Hunters are a bunch of whining mamby pampy flower pick'n sissies. LOL!!! Next we'll be discussing how hunters want to be Air Borne and dropped in from 800ft from a airplane. LOL!!! Come on. I thought this was about a reconnection to nature and being a MAN!!! Whats wrong with walking in the woods? I fish, why can't I ride my quad to my favorite fish spot or better yet why can't I fish from my quad in the creek? God knows I don't want to get my feetsies wet! LOL!!! Screw a boat I got alot of money invested in this DARN QUAD!!!! LOL!!!



kettle rofl

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#2538 - 12/06/10 12:33 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Rrudzi Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 1896
Loc: Lower Bucks Co. Pa
Near our camp the DCNR will let you take in a tractor or ATV only behond the gates on a fireroad to recover a big Bear. Of course with their permission. I would like to see the gamelands be open to ATV's during the spring and summer.
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#2549 - 12/07/10 03:49 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Wildhorse800 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 1344
Loc: Between Bedford and Canada
Just remember...Our quads will destroy the natural ecosystems and make the scenery ugly...BUT it is perfectly safe and non destructive to bring in heavy equipment of all sorts to drill for natural gas wells????????? cookoo

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#2550 - 12/07/10 04:03 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
ghost_rider Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 49
The tree huggers are against the gas wells as well. Difference is $. The state is willing to allow them because it spells tax $'s for em. The atvr's already have areas they can ride in their mind and they could care less if they improve upon them or expand them. For the record I could care less about how much damage a quad does to a trail. Erosion happens with even just walking on land. The problem I have is sitting down at a spot to hunt and have some jack wagon come past on a quad on a trail they are not supposed to be on. Snowmobilers are even worse for this in the northern tier. I cant count how many times I had hunting stands ruined by some jerk coming 80 mph up a trail he wasn't supposed to be on. Also while I am driving my vehicle on the roads open for me they come past wanting me to get off the road and get stuck. If you get stuck they blow by ya and don't offer any help. Sorry for the rant but I don't see any positives in allowing atv's on SGL's.

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#2551 - 12/07/10 06:08 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
people are idiots anywhere you go, it has nothing to do with wether or not it is a state game land. i would have loved to have been riding for the last 3 weekends, but i realize that many landowners only ever get out onto their property during deer season and the week or so before. during this time they do not want to have people riding in that area. in order to ensure i have somewhere to ride the rest of the year, i leave my Grizz sit. heck, i don't even ride on my own 10 acres during this time so as not to upset the neighbors!
people have no respect for anyone or their property and then cant figure out why the landowners DON'T want them! if people used their heads, we would all have more places to ride.


Edited by Hammer07 (12/07/10 06:09 PM)
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#2552 - 12/07/10 09:44 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
magoo Offline
addict

Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 400
Loc: Schellsburg , Pa
goodpost I am with you 100%

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#2555 - 12/08/10 01:13 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: magoo]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
ok Well said . A little respect and consideration goes a long way in a sport/hobbie that all ready has enough groups throwing rocks at us .
This is also why Tri County shuts the trails down for the 2 weeks of rifle season at the club . Respect and consideration for the locals that live and hunt there .

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#2556 - 12/08/10 07:03 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
Is it direspectful to ride on SUNDAY? Do ATV's scare deer? Is it more disrespectful to ride on SUNDAYS during rifle season than it is during archery? Do boats, jet ski's, swimmers scare fish? Maybe everybody should show some respect to fisherman and keep their filthy butts out of the streams, rivers, ponds, and lakes LOL!! What about hunters who shoot geese or ducks? Should America shut the sky's down for that season? Do airplanes scare the geese and ducks? What is so darn special about deer season? Maybe if you can't shoot a deer it's because you don't have what it takes? Maybe if you got out of your clubhouse in the tree and actualy hunted instead of texting, reading magazines, drinking beer, and playing cards you might get to shoot a deer. The real problem I think in this country is we have got fat and lazy from everything being handed to us. Agian hunters are whining mamby pamby flower picking sissies who have been given enough.LOL!!!


Edited by chris (12/08/10 04:50 PM)

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#2557 - 12/08/10 11:48 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
Chris, I'm not a big hunter, but these guys get to enjoy their hobby 2 weeks out of the year. i'm capable of not screwing up their 2 weeks to enjoy the outdoors.
as far as bow season, if i know someone is hunting in a certain area, i'll stay away from that area. if i see a truck parked somewhere with no other explaination for being there, i'll assume someone is hunting there and NOT ride there.
you can call the landowner fat and lazy all day long, that won't open any trails for you. if a guy owns a piece of property and he is willing to allow riding on that property except for deer season, you can bet your @$$ i'm going stay far away from his property during hunting season.
boats and fishing? i don't do either, so i have no idea nor do i care how they those groups get along.
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#2558 - 12/08/10 12:04 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Hammer , read Chris's profile..... lmao... kettle
I think maybe you've been.... fishing


tongue rofl


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#2563 - 12/08/10 03:51 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
maybe, but guys with that attitude are the ones screwin' the rest of us.
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#2564 - 12/08/10 04:47 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
Ones with attitudes aint screw'n you! It's the PUNKS who litter, have loud pipes, tear the ground up and cause erosion, make their own trails on state and federal trails, ride with NO registration or insurance, ride on RAC with no permits, TRESPASS, drink large quantities of adult beverages while riding poker runs or any other time they ride, and don't wear helmets. What attitude are you talking about anyhow Hammer07. "These guys" you talk about get 7 months out of the year to enjoy there hobby, we get 5. They get full run of the country side we get a couple hundred miles set aside for us to ride by the state, if that. I have NO attitude I just like to stir the pot sometimes to see what comes of it. LOL!!!

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#2565 - 12/08/10 08:02 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
you are absolutely right, doing those things will get property shut down.
on this side of the state i ride on private property and not my own. i can leave my house and ride for an 8 hour day and never hit trails that are maintained by anyone or paid for by anyone. these trails are there because the landowners allow us to be there as long as we don't screw up their hunting, destroy their crops or make a mess of the ground.
the "screw the hunters" attitude is what i am talking about. if you are going around intentionally p*$$*ng off the other people using the property, then they are going to do everything they can to keep you out, wether it is public or private land.
and i'm sorry you only get 5 months a year to ride. i ride all year long, i just take a few weeks off during deer season.
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#2567 - 12/08/10 09:18 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Myleslong Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 1163
Loc: Lycoming County, PA
I only get 5 months to ride on our 3,500 acres a year cause it is leased to hunters. The agreement is when there is no hunting season our family can use our land. I didn't say "Screw Hunters" nor is that my attitude, but I have been burnt a few times by hunters who are dihonust. Last year I almost had my truck cofiscaded by the game commision for aiding and abbeding 2 hunters after a deer was shot in a safety zone (my back yard), the 2 IDIOTS then decided the one wanted the deer and the one who shot it let the other JACK WAGON put his tag on it. Then I thought the neighborly thing to do was offer my truck and since I'm probably 30 yrs younger than either one of these TARDS I helped put it in the bed of my truck to transport it to his house. Did I say I don't hunt nor have I ever. Well low and behold the Game Commision showed up they heard reports of a deer being put down in a safe zone. We said yep its right here in the truck. Well they asked who's truck, who shot it, then they noticed the tag was fer the other guy. ILLEGAL DEER in the back of my truck, I sweated this for this last year. I have been met at gun point on our property out of season, and I have been marched and humilated to my inlaws house out of season to prove to these NINCOMPOOPS that I am who I say. Oh one of these DINGLEBERRIES is the owner of the company that rumored will be building a bridge for the SSRT and Bloody Skillet connector trail. These are not hicks I talk about but people who clearly no better. You are wrong about the property you ride not being paid for by anyone, somebody purchased it and somebody pays taxes on it. I do ride all year as well, my Cat had over 2,000 miles on it in its first year of ownership, so don't be sorry for me. You clearley have assumptions about me, but thats all they are. Maybe someday we could meet up at SSRT and I will introduce myself so that you know who this lousy speller is. LOL!!! Then we will ride. BAH HA HA HA HA!!! WOW IS THIS OFF TOPIC!!!! Nice job!


Edited by chris (12/08/10 10:02 PM)

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#2570 - 12/08/10 10:51 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
i didn't say the property wasn't owned by someone, i know very well the cost of owning property, i said the trails were not paid for or maintained by anyone. meaning that this is not some type of organized trail system. it is just neighbors allowing neighbors the use of their property with the understanding that you won't take part in the stupid activities that you mentioned earlier.
i am sorry that i misinterpreted your stance, but "screw the hunters" is what your first post sounded like. i was just pointing out that while it does suck to not be able to ride in some places during hunting season, both parties can use the land and not have to have such big issues between themselves.
educated and non-hick doesn't necessarily mean some one has any amount of common sense. our biggest issue around our farm is that educated urban people bought property next to our farm to use for hunting. they also bought atv's. they posted their property and get upset if you go near it, but they feel free to roam everyone else's property on their atv's while baiting deer and carrying rifles. they have p*$$*d off everyone else around to the point that many are closing their property because of one group who is only here a few times a year. the point is, you can get along with the landowners and hunters and still be able to use the ground if you have some manners and respect. i'm not insinuating that you don't, just that is what needs to be done in general.
i'd love to meet up with you sometime to ride. i always enjoy meeting new people and getting a good days ride in too!


Edited by Hammer07 (12/08/10 10:52 PM)
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#2573 - 12/09/10 12:23 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Sounds like you both had some exceptionally BAD experiences with both hunters and ATVers . Just goes to show , no matter what you hobbies or sport may be , a few bad apples with no respect or consideration for others can ruin it for everyone.

In the area where I grew up , it's just starting to get back to the good old days with the nieghbors / riders introducing their children to ATVs . There was a generation in between that , that ruined the nieghborhood trails by being disrespectful to the tune of riding right through a couple farmers fields and mowing down his crops . Trails and property seemed to shut down overnight . Those riders have since gotten older and moved away . It will never be the same , but we are once again welcomed visiters / ATVers.

Knock on a few doors and introduce yourself even if your only CLOSE to someones property line with a trail . You'll be surprised how accomidating people may be by showing consideration and respect for their property and sharing views about our hobby . Heck , they may even offer a short cut across thier land.

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#2574 - 12/09/10 12:41 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: 4x4dad]
Hammer07 Offline
addict

Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Indiana County
goodpost
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#2577 - 12/09/10 05:45 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Hammer07]
CycleGuru Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 107
Loc: cyber-space
Wow fire and brimstone in this topic, I must read it all, at a later date. Must get ready to go to work, otherwise, I would... keep up the great info. guys and I will enjoy the commentary!
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#2578 - 12/09/10 10:00 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
ghost_rider Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 49
chris. If someone shot a deer in your safe zone you could have told the hunters to piss off. They are not allowed and it wouldn't have been your problem. Most people do not realize this but anyone can hunt in a safety zone. They just need permission of the property owner. I think it is written permission. It does suck that you were put in the position of transporting an illegally tagged deer and it would be hard to explain to the PGC why it was in the back of your truck. Next time someone drops a deer in your yard you can legally tell them they can't cross your property till a WCO shows and have them take care of issuing a citation to the jack wagons that shot the deer. Even if they were out of the zone they are held responsible because they shot a deer that was standing in the 150yd circle around your house.

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#2584 - 12/09/10 12:51 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: ghost_rider]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
Good advice GR. Those boys are what we refer to as SLOB hunters .... crazedshotgun redcard firedevil No reguard for the safety of anyone or anything . By alerting the area WCO , they get a citation and are now on the books , so future infractions will dictate the the severity of the citation.

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#36692 - 03/03/14 10:08 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
I know this is an old thread but I am gonna comment anyway. I ride on SGL in the summer months. I don't give a poopy what the PAGC says. They have to catch me. I am not saying this to sound arrogant. I am just tired of having no place close to ride. I used to hunt so I understand that hunters have the right to use the woods too. I have found in my years of riding and hunting that deer aren't as afraid of atvs as you think. I own property. When I go out on my property, the deer will stand there and watch me ride by. If I stop the atv and get off, they will bolt. I hear all the time how the PAGC is low on funds and have problems funding programs. Why not let the atvers help with funds? Every atver I know would be willing to pay $100-$150 a year to have access to these lands legally. They will never stop the riding so why not take advantage? Look at what the wells are doing to these lands. Another thing is there isn't as many stupid riders as you think. I wont ride in hunting season. I don't need to catch a stray bullet. Like another poster said. I avoid going out on my own land during the day during hunting season so as to not ruin anyones hunt near me. Another thing I am getting pissed at. Many of our ATV riding parks are nice enough to shut down during hunting seasons yet, the PGC cant allow us to ride in the off season.

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#36696 - 03/04/14 07:34 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
4x4dad Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 2920
Loc: Butler , Pennsylvania , USA
dsrider , many ATV/UTV'ers are frustrated about not having more access to local riding , but illegal is illegal . If you read more threads here , I believe you'll see a majority of the members are more than willing to help law enforcement prosecute illegal riders . You can either help improve the image of our sport or become part of the reason ATV/UTV'ers have a bad image in the publics eye . Just imagin if everyone only obeyed the laws they agree with . I think you get the picture ....... doh

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#36699 - 03/04/14 04:56 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Tazdog Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 53
Loc: Lancaster,Pa.
For what its worth,I'm with DS on this one...I definitely will not ride and can respect not riding the trails/woods during hunting seasons,but I see no reason why we can not have access to ride on existing roads/trails that DCNR/PAGC has closed off on the off seasons (summer months)...The ssrt/BS connector that was mentioned earlier is connected to the railroad bed that we used to ride for years with no issues...now we can't...its a nice ride/trip thru there....How do we encourage the authorities to change they're mind for this area...its not gamelands,but state forest
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#36711 - 03/06/14 03:52 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Tazdog]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
Like I said. In no way am I trying to cause trouble here with anyone but, I will continue to ride on the trails that are in the SGL near me. I don't go out there and make new trails. These trails have been there since the 1960s when the dirt bikers made them. Then in the 70's, the PGC comes in and buys up the land. Many of the hunters around here actually don't mind the atv trails because it offers them easy walking access in to their hunting spots. A few years back, they actually saved a local mans life. He had ran into some health issues(not exactly sure what happened) and he made his way to an atv trail. Without that trail, he may not have made it out of the woods that day. Many hunters have been lost and they were found by local atvers that went out with the search party. I am tired of not having places to ride. There is a politician in Harrisburg that is fighting to open up SGL for off road use. Hopefully some day we can legally share the woods with the hunters.

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#36712 - 03/06/14 04:05 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
Also, like I said in my first post. Many of our ride parks and legal trails shut down for hunting season. How is it fair for us to give up our land for hunters yet hunters cant share their land with us? Let me just say, I have no problem with hunters. Almost everyone in my family hunts and I used to. This state has some of the highest sales numbers for atvs in the east and yet they cant provide us with an adequate amount of trails to ride. There are too many of our trails that are too far to travel to Some of them are only 7 or ten miles long. Well, they are 3 hours from SW PA. If I am gonna travel that far, I will go an hour farther and go to Hatfield McCoy. Maybe someday, I wont be on here complaining about this because I would love to move down to southern WV where the state actually cares about us.

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#36718 - 03/06/14 04:32 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
mikeexplorer Offline


Registered: 10/28/10
Posts: 720
Loc: Northeast, PA
I can understand your frustration and your right, it isn't fair. There should be more riding opportunities available. Best hope is to join with an organization like PaOHV which works with harrisburg and DCNR to try to expand riding options as well as other things. Its the game we have to play in order to get heard. I am a member of this organization for a few years now and what it comes down to is numbers. If we got together and unified, it would get noticed. Plus what they look at is economics. A successful system like Hatfield-McCoy and the new Ride the Wilds is proof of that. Although PA is not in the same game, we are also not the worst off either. NJ has practically nothing legal to ride. Most of what I see at Lost Trails is out of state plates.

Mike
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#36732 - 03/08/14 09:52 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Tazdog Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 53
Loc: Lancaster,Pa.
Sounds great...lets get a petition started,take to all the poker/dice runs,ssrt events etc.,I am sure there won't be any problems getting signatures to get those "numbers"...do we have a voice through mikeexplorer to move this forward?

Taz
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#36734 - 03/09/14 08:45 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Lipcurl Offline
addict

Registered: 08/07/10
Posts: 456
Loc: Franklin county
State game lands are funded by money from hunting licenses or land donated to the pgc. The pgc will never allow atvs on the game lands. You will never get enough signatures for that. Game lands are managed to provided habitat and refuge for game and for hunting since the money came from them.

Now state forest land, that's a different story.......like mike said, dcnr controls that and of course manage our current state run trails.
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#36741 - 03/10/14 02:27 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Lipcurl]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
Yeah, well take a walk around a game lands and look at the gas wells. That's real good for the game management. The SGL that I ride in and let me add that not everything I ride in is SGL, has over 45 gas wells. The roads going through there are all stone. Do you realize how much ground has been taken away from the well and roads? Its hundreds if not a thousand acres. There isn't much nutritional value in gravel. The hunters are getting screwed more by the PGC than by atv riders. Most riders are not going to ride when it is hunting season. Most people aren't suicidal. I will say this though. Gas well operations don't shut down for hunting season. How would you like to be sitting there enjoying a nice day in the woods only to have a well tender come strolling through in their trucks. They also have atvs that they use in the job. Wake up people. The PGC is hurting financially but they wont pull their heads out of their asses long enough to see that atv riders could be a means of funding that could eliminate all of their financial problems.

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#36743 - 03/10/14 10:47 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
Smitty549 Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 24
Loc: Indiana
I don't know about ever getting SGLs but State Forest roads should be open. In Potter basically the lower half of the county is not rideable. No reason whatsoever to not let ATVs on these roads. I agree many people would pay for a registration/permit to legally ride. Start with the state forest roads, slow and steady wins the race. I could take you on a 200 mile (legal) ride in POCO if they would let us ride the SF roads.

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#36747 - 03/10/14 02:29 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Lipcurl]
kfp673 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 240
Loc: Gilbertsville, PA
Originally Posted By: Lipcurl
State game lands are funded by money from hunting licenses or land donated to the pgc. The pgc will never allow atvs on the game lands. You will never get enough signatures for that. Game lands are managed to provided habitat and refuge for game and for hunting since the money came from them.

Now state forest land, that's a different story.......like mike said, dcnr controls that and of course manage our current state run trails.


So where are our registration dollars going then?? The answer is horse, hiking, and mountain bike trails. Apparently the state has no problem robbing peter to pay paul. I am 110% all for riding access on game lands and state forrest lands. If they want to shut down for a few particular hunting dates I would understand that. The best petition we could all sign would be for every single one of us NOT to pay our registration renewal. They might just listen if that happened.
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#36748 - 03/10/14 06:22 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: kfp673]
DirtyDeed Offline
addict

Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 522
Loc: Wind Gap, PA
Originally Posted By: kfp673
The best petition we could all sign would be for every single one of us NOT to pay our registration renewal. They might just listen if that happened.


Let's do the same with the irs. That crap needs some serious fixing too.
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#36755 - 03/11/14 01:38 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
I am not real familiar with Potter county so I'm not sure about these state forest roads but, I am not sure how fun that would be. Two hundred miles is a lot of riding but, if it isn't a challenge, then I am not sure how much use it would attract. Speaking of our registration dollars. I live near a place that has a decent little ride area for locals but to get to some of it, you have to ride along side a bike trail. I don't ride on the trail. I stay in the grass but, we always used to have bicyclists yell at us. I then found out that our reg. dollars are what pays for that trail for them. I haven't had one yell at me lately for me to clue them in on who helps put that trail there.


A quick question. Does anyone here ride near Benezette? If so, I have heard that you are allowed now to ride all roads in Benezette Twp. Is there other riding there or is it just Twp. roads?

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#36762 - 03/11/14 07:10 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: kfp673]
mikeexplorer Offline


Registered: 10/28/10
Posts: 720
Loc: Northeast, PA
One of the things PaOHV is currently doing is to have the ATV and Snowmobile funds separated. ATV registrations outnumber sleds (by how much I do not know) This will help with accountability of ATV collected funds be used for ATV trails.

Mike



Originally Posted By: kfp673
So where are our registration dollars going then?? The answer is horse, hiking, and mountain bike trails. Apparently the state has no problem robbing peter to pay paul. I am 110% all for riding access on game lands and state forrest lands. If they want to shut down for a few particular hunting dates I would understand that. The best petition we could all sign would be for every single one of us NOT to pay our registration renewal. They might just listen if that happened.
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#36770 - 03/13/14 01:53 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
I did a little research and this is what I came up with.

Sproul State Forest has 305,000 acres and offers 84 miles of trails.

Delaware State Forest has 83,000 acres and offers 29 miles of trails.

Bald Eagle State Forest has 193,000 acres and offers 24 miles of trails.

Tiadaghton State Forest has 146,000 acres and offers 17 miles of trails.

Buchanan State Forest has 69,000 acres and offers 33 miles of trails.

Michaux State Forest has 85,000 acres and offers 35 miles of trails.

Susquehannock State Forest has 265,000 acres and offers 43 miles of trails.

There is roughly 1,146,000 acres of state forest in PA. There is roughly 265 miles of trails on these state forest lands. It might seem better than nothing but, a lot of those trails are too far for people to travel to for what they offer. People are taking their money to West Virginia where they have access to over 700 miles of trails and only have to travel an hour between all of them. This is appalling. Our money goes for nothing. They don't develop new trails for us. Now we have to share those state forests with hunters which I have no problem with. There is plenty of land for all of us. What I have a problem with is they cant share their state game lands with us. That is why I have no problem riding on state game lands near me when it isn't hunting season. Sorry to keep beating a dead horse but, this is something that has bothered me for a while.

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#36784 - 03/13/14 05:19 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
mikeexplorer Offline


Registered: 10/28/10
Posts: 720
Loc: Northeast, PA
Riding on game lands is not going to help the image with ATV riders, I choose not to do that but what you do is your business.

I do agree we should have more state trails, the past few years DCNR has been more towards awarding grants to parks rather then developing more state trails, but at least we have something.

Where I live, the two closest trails to me are Maple Run and Burnt Mills (about a 45 min drive) currently Maple run is closed so naturally its not worth it for me to drive 45 minutes to ride 7 miles. When it is open, we hook up with some friends and do both trails once a year. Of course you have to trailer between places.

The next place is Dixon Miller. This one is about an hour drive, I have not rode that in a few years since Lost Trails opened. Nowadays you have to factor in gas costs. Lost Trails is practically in my back yard (less then 10 min drive) and has more then double the miles and trails compared to Dixon Miller. (Although I may ride it this year since its been awhile and my girl has never ridden it.) Lost Trails is a Pay to ride park verses state trails which are free. Considering what a year pass is verses the gas I would use to go to Dixon Miller (Or Maple Run/Burnt Mills) it makes more sense for me to go to Lost Trails.

I do also travel, Sproul State Forest IMO has the best trails (but Whiskey Springs is closed for a few years now. shucks ) On the flip side, you can now ride between SSRT and Bloody Skillet (The $20 a year for SSRT is nothing IMO) does make up for it and you can either camp there or there are several cheap motel options)

Susquehannock State Forest is one we hit every year, there is also the advantage that most of the roads are also open to ATV's to extend the 43 miles available.

Hopefully PA will see how other states are making money off ATV riders and open more options. Join a club (preferably one that is also a PaOHV member) to give numbers and a voice. Its the game we have to play with these stupid politics. So much more could be accomplished without it for sure. I have been involved with a recent club who presently has usage of 12 miles of trail. The hope is to expand the miles but there are politics that get in the way. At least its 12 miles of legal riding that did not exist before.

Mike
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#36788 - 03/14/14 01:53 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: mikeexplorer]
dsrider Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 75
Loc: Westmoreland County
I completely understand your point and I understand you not wanting to take the chance with the SGL. I myself will take that chance. Also, it isn't like I am the only one in my area. There is a large area that is private but you can ride it. The problem is some of the trails to get there go through SGL because since it has been a riding area clear back in the early 70's, it wasn't SGL then. Then the PGC comes in and buys up land. The way it works here, the PGC pretty much doesn't come in in the summer and bust people unless they are called or just happen to be there for some reason and happen to catch you. I could blow your mind if I told you what was told to me by a game officer. I wont say here and I wont say his name but lets just say they are dirty and they don't go by the old saying "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" if you know what I mean. Getting to the amount of trails. It is sickening how many acres of state forests we have and only have 265 miles of trails. If those 265 were all somewhat close to each other it wouldn't be bad but to travel for 7 miles here and 14 miles there is not feasible. The trails are spread all over the state. You guys out east are worse off than us. At least I have Rock Run and Mountain Ridge and Mines and Meadows close to me for private parks. I am in SW Pa. For me to go to ANF, it is a little over 3 hours. It is 4 hours for me to go to Hatfield. I would rather go there and have access to 700 miles of trails. Go another hour or two and you have access to over a 1000 miles of trails in eastern Kentucky and eastern Tennessee. This state is not only missing out on major dollars but is also treating us like we don't matter. Like I said before. Hopefully some day I will be able to move to southern WV but until then, I will just do what I have always done. I will say this. After looking at a lot of other states. Other than WV, Kentucky and Tennessee, we have it a lot better than most other eastern states. Now you mention also being able to ride forest roads. Now I am not knocking how anyone rides but, I just don't find riding flat dirt roads enjoyable. If I wanted to do that, id own a Can Am Spyder. MikeExplorer, have you ever been Hatfield? I know it is far for you but if you haven't, get yourself there. I met some guys there last year form Jersey. Super nice guys. They said it was well worth the drive. You will never regret it it you haven't been there.

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#36791 - 03/14/14 04:57 PM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: Yamaha Rider]
mikeexplorer Offline


Registered: 10/28/10
Posts: 720
Loc: Northeast, PA
I meant the township roads, not state forest roads.

Someday I do want to do a trip to Hatfield, I also want to try the NH trails (Ride The Wilds) Both are far for me.
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#36795 - 03/15/14 09:17 AM Re: Should atvs be allowed on state game land. [Re: mikeexplorer]
kfp673 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 240
Loc: Gilbertsville, PA
Originally Posted By: mikeexplorer
I meant the township roads, not state forest roads.

Someday I do want to do a trip to Hatfield, I also want to try the NH trails (Ride The Wilds) Both are far for me.



X2. Looking at trading my current camper on a toy hauler for trips like this. WV and NH are states that understand how to turn OHV's into income. PA & NJ, not so much!!
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